Commons:Village pump/Archive/2024/09

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Please help verify the authorization license of the video files uploaded from the bilibili.com website.

Unlike YouTube and Flickr, bilibili.com does not have a Creative Commons license setting, so users need to manually mark similar licenses. A bilibili.com user contacted me and asked me to help him upload some video files to WikiCommons under CC-BY-4.0 license. The files are listed below, and I hope someone can check the license.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Fumikas Sagisavas (talk • contribs)

@Fumikas Sagisavas: Where on bilibili.com can we verify that this person has granted this license for these files? - Jmabel ! talk 22:31, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
For example, this video file is File:Freshippo torch meat skewers.webm, and the original video file is marked "本视频按照署名 4.0 协议国际版进行授权（CC-BY-4.0）" in the summary. Fumikas Sagisavas (talk) 22:40, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
✓ Done. Jmabel ! talk 04:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
This section was archived on a request by: Jmabel ! talk 04:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

How do I use autowikibrowser?

I want to start using AWB since I upload large amounts of files and want to make mass edits to them. How can I use it? I know it has a permission requirement, so how hard is it to get it? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 10:44, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: See Commons:AutoWikiBrowser —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 10:47, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
Hi, Did you try Visual File Change? Yann (talk) 10:47, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
@Yann thank you that works great Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 11:22, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Let me also endorse VFC. I use it pretty heavily; I've used AWB now and then, but have found VFC generally easier for most purposes. - Jmabel ! talk 22:27, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel how do I make it appear and where should it be appearing? I started it but I cannot find it and I think I either didn't clear my cache or didn't properly activate it. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 12:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: It should appear as "Perform batch task" with the rest of your tools. See Help:VisualFileChange.js#Step 0: How to Install, including the "If you do not have the autopatrolled right: add" bit.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:48, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jeff G. that was it. I was confused since I thought autopatrolled was something you got automatically. Thank you. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 16:49, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: Right, you got autoconfirmed automatically four days after you registered December 5, 2021 at 22:44:14 (UTC). You're welcome.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
This section was archived on a request by:   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Native American fishing rights

We don't seem to have a category for Native American fishing rights (nor hunting rights, but offhand I don't have any content for that). I'm not sure how to bes get that into our category hierarchy: it's a matter of tribal treaty rights, not civil rights. We have at least File:Helix, v.4, no.5, Aug. 29, 1968 - DPLA - 841a1a68f4295fee3a912baf0c87caaa (page 9).jpg, File:Helix, v.4, no.6, Aug. 29, 1968 - DPLA - 73a8fb15a58855b090d500dba021b984 (page 4).jpg, File:Helix, v.4, no.7, Sep. 12, 1968 - DPLA - feeee1d59fc70ba359e15965679dafbf (page 6).jpg, and Category:Billy Frank Jr. that would belong there. I suspect there are a fair number of other files and possibly categories. - Jmabel ! talk 02:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Question (in English) about categories in Chinese

Please see Commons:Village_pump/zh#Commons:Report_Special:UncategorizedCategories_in_zh.

I posted it there due to the (assumed) language of the categories, but it's unclear if that Village pump is actually read.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 11:08, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

looks like a perennial problem for chinese books.
you can dump this code on all of them whenever such categories appear in future.
{{Category for book|zh}}
[[Category:Chinese-language books by title]] RZuo (talk) 16:54, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. Will do. Ideally the categories (and files) would have {{Book}} or at least an infobox.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 17:24, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

adding wdib without knowledge of the books only adds to maintenance backlog unnecessarily.--RZuo (talk) 23:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Need to modify a photograph in the articles

Hello Wikimedia Commons, I just made a post that includes sources showing a detail of the difference between two species. Through this post it is possible to see that the butterfly in this photo is Bhutanitis ludlowi and not the liderdalii whose articles contain it (and it is on several pages). Mário NET (talk) 04:06, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

You can edit the category on File:Dead_Bhutan_Glory_in_Eaglenest_Wildlife_Sanctuary.JPG.
Then update d:Q1768041 (which will likely solve it for several Wikipedia articles).
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 10:19, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. I changed the category of the specimen, its common name and the scientific name was added to the image. I don't know how to change the Wikidata numbering. Mário NET (talk) 13:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Mário NET: you don't change the Wikidata numbering. On Wikidata, you change the (typically one) image associated with each affected item. - Jmabel ! talk 14:17, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Prototyperspective (talk) 20:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Announcing the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee

Original message at wikimedia-l. You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language

Hello all,

The scrutineers have finished reviewing the vote and the Elections Committee have certified the results for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) special election.

I am pleased to announce the following individual as regional members of the U4C, who will fulfill a term until 15 June 2026:

  • North America (USA and Canada)
    • Ajraddatz

The following seats were not filled during this special election:

  • Latin America and Caribbean
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  • Sub-Saharan Africa
  • South Asia
  • The four remaining Community-At-Large seats

Thank you again to everyone who participated in this process and much appreciation to the candidates for your leadership and dedication to the Wikimedia movement and community.

Over the next few weeks, the U4C will begin meeting and planning the 2024-25 year in supporting the implementation and review of the UCoC and Enforcement Guidelines. You can follow their work on Meta-Wiki.

On behalf of the U4C and the Elections Committee,

RamzyM (WMF) 14:05, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Help us learn about On-Wiki Collaborations

The Campaigns team at the Wikimedia Foundation is exploring how to expand it's work on campaigns, to support other kinds of collaboration. We are interested in learning from diverse editors that have experience joining and working on WikiProjects, Campaigns, and other kinds of on-wiki collaboration. We need your help:

Whatever input you bring to the two spaces will help us make better decisions about next steps beyond the current tools we support. Astinson (WMF) (talk) 18:53, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I'm sorry. I believe this image is not under permission and I'm just now realizing it. Mário NET (talk) 02:38, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

@Mário NET: it looks like that file page is a mess in terms of what it states, but if the image is from Adalbert Seitz (died 1938, which means PD in Germany) and was published in 1927 (which means PD in the U.S.) it should just be a matter of cleaning up the claims on the file page. And if it does come originally from the 1845 work mentioned there, then the case is even clearer. What has you concerned? - Jmabel ! talk 02:52, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
I thought it would say "free copyright" in "Show Info" and it said "Copyright & Usage, Due Diligence"; so I couldn't interpret what it was. 03:18, 1 September 2024 (UTC) Mário NET (talk) 03:18, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
@Mário NET: "free copyright" makes no sense at all. Perhaps you are thinking "copyright-free" (meaning that there is no copyright)?
I'll try to fix the page myself, because I'm pretty sure your recent edit (which I reverted) only made this worse. - Jmabel ! talk 16:23, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Please correct me if I am wrong, but, it's not the case for public domain works such as the one here, but, for CC-licensed works, I believe that there is copyright in place, and there is a free license one (the requirement to cite the original author, or to redistribute the work under the same license, in the case of CC-BY-SA, is due to copyright law: the work's author has copyright ownership, and licenses the work to others under a CC license). So in some cases, not for public domain works such as this, but "free copyright" could make sense as a phrase. MGeog2022 (talk) 09:15, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
@MGeog2022: I couldn't fully follow some of your English, but if I follow you correctly you are describing "copyrighted free-licensed work", and I stand by my original statement. If I've misunderstood you, feel free to write in Spanish, which I read without difficulty. - Jmabel ! talk 22:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel, it's probably because how I chained one sentence after another, perhaps I did it in a too Spanish-like way. Yes, I'm talking about copyrighted free-licensed works, and, so, you're completely right, "free copyright" perhaps may never make sense, since there is this another way to say it. Sorry, but, some time away, I saw a misunderstanding in a Wikipedia talk page, where someone seemed to say that the mere presence of a copyright tag implied that a work could not be freely licensed, and I think it's a dangerous error, since it may lead to the removal of legitimate content, so I wanted to draw attention to it (not so much because you thought so, which seemed very unlikely, but because of others who might read it). MGeog2022 (talk) 09:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Wait, I'm confused, too. Where did the mention of an 1845 work come from? What is the source for that information? - Jmabel ! talk 16:35, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
This work is not from 1845, what happens is that I used a text from another image to construct this one and I didn't realize that the "1845" from the previous text had remained, I will correct that. Mário NET (talk) 01:55, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Commons Gazette 2024-09

Volunteer staff changes

In August 2024, 1 sysop was removed. Currently, there are 183 sysops.

We thank him for his service.

Other news

Edited by RZuo (talk).

Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing!

--RZuo (talk) 23:04, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I suggest that the Commons community should take action in the event that Cat-a-lot is slowed down (effectively to the rate of 1 edit per second). I don't want to disagree with SRE-team's conclusions, but this unilateral change to the "coolest tool" has affected many users' workflows (including mine). — Draceane talkcontrib. 20:11, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Maybe you can propose a better implementation ? Or sprinkle some pixie dust ? As long as it doesn't cause all of Wikimedia to got down multiple times a week, any of it is welcome. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:21, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
I think the bug was identified two months ago. Something in relation to a change WMF made to Special:Search.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 21:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Japanese category

A Japanese-speaking editor is need to describe and categorise Category:Nagoya Location Navi, please.

As an aside, do we have a forum to find editors with certain language skills; or cultural understanding? On Wikipedia I would use a wikiproject, or WP:Embassy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:32, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Could you use the Wikipedia embassy for this as well? That's what I would do, even if it's not 100% the right avenue. There are two editors listed for the Japanese language there, and BorgQueen is highly active. ReneeWrites (talk) 21:19, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
Yes, but my question was whether we have a local forum. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:35, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing I described it. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 13:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Have your say: Vote for the 2024 Board of Trustees!

Hello all,

The voting period for the 2024 Board of Trustees election is now open. There are twelve (12) candidates running for four (4) seats on the Board.

Learn more about the candidates by reading their statements and their answers to community questions.

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:13, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

In case you were wondering:

 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 13:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I have many photos of a ship, but I do not know which one it is

In this category Category:Kyushu Yusen there are six operational ships. Of these ships, two are of one class, and 4 are of another class. I have many photos taken of and on each class, but I am not sure how to categorize them. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 13:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

You could add them in the categories for classes and Category:Unidentified ships.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 13:32, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
And it is certainly OK to create a category for each class. - Jmabel ! talk 18:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

CfD for categories of nonexistent WikiProjects

Hi. I got in a little tiff with a another user earlier because I nominated some categories they created for nonexistent WikiProjects for speedy deletion. I don't really feel like relitigating it here. Except to draw people's attention to Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/09/Category:WikiProject Iran by city. Personally, I feel like it clearly violates the guidelines and consensus to create categories as part of a personal pet project for things that clearly don't exist. Apparently the user who created the categories thinks it's totally fine though. So I started a CfD to see what other people think about it. The categories seem totally pointless and unhelpful to me, but who knows. Maybe I'm missing something or there's a valid reason to keep them that I'm just not aware of. Adamant1 (talk) 08:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

To repeat it for fourth (!) time: these categories are not intended for existing WikiProjects, but for separating huge WikiProject Iran by particular city, although there are some individual projects like WikiProject Tehran on Persian Wiki. They serve as maintenance categories and exist for years. The issue here is Adamant1 yesterday planned to delete everything, without any proposal or discussion, making an utter mess with hundreds of related categories, so I reverted him. --Orijentolog (talk) 09:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
The CfD is a better place to discuss the particulars. I will point out though that Commons:Categories states "we should not classify items which are related to different subjects in the same category. There should be one category per topic; multi-subject categories should be avoided. The category name should be unambiguous and not homonymous." Maybe it's just me, but I really don't see how it isn't ambagious to have a category called "WikiProject Jahrom" when there's WikiProject Jahrom and it's just a maintenance category. I certainly thought it was a category for a real WikiProject at first. I certainly didn't know it was maintenance category for WikiProject Iran until you told me. So there's clearly some ambiguity here about the purpose of the categories and why exactly they exist. Just because it's clear to you as the person who created them that doesn't mean other people will understand it and they should. Otherwise the categories should be deleted. Period. There's absolutely zero justification what-so-ever to have categories that only make sense to the person who created them. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
WikiProject Jahrom serves as a part of the WikiProject Iran and contains things related to the city of Jahrom. If it doesn't make sense to you, that's not my problem. --Orijentolog (talk) 09:27, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Then the category should be called something like "Category:WikiProject Iran in Jahrom" or "Category:WikiProject Iran (Jahrom)"; if you make categories that do not conform to our naming standards, that will very quickly become "your problem"". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:14, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: don't think I'm scared Andy, making 1,000 or 10,000 edits to correct something ain't an issue for me, and I'm a collaborative person. Only the messiness and lack of unification scares me. As I said to Adamant1 today, if there's a consensus to rename everything, I'll do it personally. I prefer keeping the status quo (yes, it's laziness!), but I would accept your proposal if others agree. Generally it's fine and I have only minor issues with it. Another thing, I don't see that strict naming standards apply to maintenance categories, there are a lot of uneven, non-English and even illiterate ones around. --Orijentolog (talk) 17:37, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
I don't think you're scared at all. Why on earth would you say that? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: please don't take me literally, it was a jesting message that I'm always ready to massively correct my own errors. --Orijentolog (talk) 18:12, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
There are a lot of uneven, non-English and even illiterate ones around. The guideline for naming categories was improved last year (after an extremely long CfD that had more then enough support at the time BTW). So there's naturally going to be some uneven, illiterate categories at this point. It takes time to cleanup this stuff up once a guideline is changed and that's not helped or made quicker by the needless edit waring and discussion over it on your end.
More to the point, something like "Category:WikiProject Iran in Jahrom" or "Category:WikiProject Iran (Jahrom)" would be better. Although I still think the categories would be mostly pointless and not make sense. As a category like "Category:WikiProject Iran in Jahrom" still insinuates that there's a WikiProject in Jahrom or that Wikiproject Iran has a satellite group when neither one is true. If someone creates a category called "X business in Y location" then that business should have some dealings in that location or the category is fundamentally wrong. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:16, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Image Annotator not working

Hi, is there a problem with ImageAnnotator ?--JotaCartas (talk) 16:05, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

OK, solved, I had "ImageAnnotator" disabled in Preferences-Gadgets, thanks and sorry for trouble JotaCartas (talk) 16:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Speedy because "File has no source" but what they are saying is "I want to see a url" instead of what is listed

@Winmyint998: See: Special:Contributions/Winmyint998 where they are sending images to speedy because the "File has no source" but what they are saying is "the source listed is inadequate". Should these images be going to speedy? A few years ago there was a problem with another editor using Speedy with: "File has no license" but what they were really saying was "I don't think this image has the correct license". Should these be going to speedy for auto-deletion and no further research, or through the regular process where the community does more research if needed? Should the normal deletion nomination process be so easy to circumvent? Should the "Speedy" be removed? RAN (talk) 07:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is an inappropriate use of the speedy deletion tag and they should be converted to regular deletion requests. Speedy deletions should only be used for clear and unamibiguous copyright violations. Checking a few files that they tagged, despite lacking in sourcing the files appear to be old enough for their copyright to have lapsed in Myanmar. ReneeWrites (talk) 07:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Agree with RAN and ReneeWrites, but things are certainly not helped when (for example) [[User:History of the Burmese}} says source is {{Own work}}, date is three days before the upload, and the license is {{PD-Myanmar}}. Presumably it's the source and date that are wrong here rather than the license, but the source and date are not even plausible. - Jmabel ! talk 16:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Are amulets toys?

I am having some of the files I uploaded being proposed for deletion as toys, to my knowledge they are amulets, not toys, considered to have religious significance. Does that change things? Commons:Deletion requests/File:Okimono omikuji.jpg This overall applies to the entire category Category:Doubutsu mikuji Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 13:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

They are presumably not "toys", but uhey are certainly copyrightable in the U.S. I can't speak for Japan. - Jmabel ! talk 18:06, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel toys are not copyrightable in Japan. But would that mean we should delete the entire category? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 10:24, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: Yes, unless the toys are licensed freely in the US.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 10:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Categories which should only contain media of a specific type

what have i just found 🧐

Category:Categories which should only contain media of a specific type. RZuo (talk) 11:37, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

@RZuo: This sentence no verb. (I'm not sure what you meant to discuss in this thread.) - Jmabel ! talk 12:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Wikitext weirdness in Commons:Editor's index to Commons

In Commons:Editor's index to Commons (a.k.a. COM:Glossary), there is some weirdness I don't quickly see how to fix. The display where the wikitext says Bots: <span id="Catbot"></span>{{Shortcut2|COM:EIC#Catbot}} surely cannot be what we want, and also can be really confusing about the alphabetical order when trying to look up anything else (looks like you are already to "COM", but actually is part of "Categories" and comes before "Censorship". Currently, I'm really tired and not at my sharpest after some travel SNAFUs. Could someone else please take a look at this? Thanks. - Jmabel ! talk 12:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

The authorization information of two images is corrupted

The licensing information of these two images of the Moldovan Parliament Hall are damaged, but free licensing information can be found based on the image sources. Please help manually repair the licensing information, thank you!

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T374235
RZuo (talk) 12:46, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi there! A colleague of mine has been working for many years on the topic of image searching. His focus is not just on finding images that are tagged with keywords, but also finding similar images for various definitions of similar. He managed to obtain 6 million images from Commons to demonstrate his technology, it is freely available at WikiView. He has tried to find someone at Commons who knows if an API for Commons exists and if it does, if it is possible to just pull new pictures and not have to pull a dump at regular intervals. It would be cool to offer this visual search (quite a different way of searching, try it!) from the home page and also to have it stay up-to-date. If you are such a person, please contact me in-wiki and I'll put you in touch with my colleague. Thanks! --WiseWoman (talk) 18:43, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

"He managed to obtain 6 million images" ... sigh. I trust they didn't clear this with anyone ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
I was thinking about doing a similar thing to train an AI image generator but who knows how it work with all the different kinds of licenses on here. At least in that case the generated images would be different from the originals. It still seems questionable though to just take millions of images with different licenses and use them in a single product in mass though. I don't there's any way to follows the licensing terms for every image. Especially an in instance like this one. Let alone with an AI image generator. --Adamant1 (talk) 02:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
I wasn't part of the project, but they did speak to someone. The problem is, that the people change and this is so difficult for people not in the Wikiworld to sort out who they have to speak with. But there is a link back to Commons when an image is found the license is clearly given in Wikiview. I believe they only used images that were usable according to the license, and that was the problem, being able to obtain new pictures but only those ones with a fitting license. The WikiWorld seems so difficult to people not active here, often because the tone is a bit rough. --WiseWoman (talk) 11:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Template:WiseWoman After I commented I noticed that they have a way to sort the images by license and that there's links back to the images on Commons. Both of which helps. I can understand why this would be difficult for people who aren't active in the project already. It can be a little rough and the sheer amount of different licenses with multiple variations per license based on the personal preferences of uploaders really doesn't help. I'd love to see them at least get rid personalized licensing terms. If not just the different defaults down to 1 or 2. There's like what, 7 different versions of the Creative Commons license on here at this point though? The whole things totally ridiculous. --Adamant1 (talk) 20:41, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Pinging @WiseWoman, since Adamant1's ping is ill-formed and won't have worked. - Jmabel ! talk 14:15, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Sounds amazing! Have a look at m:Community Wishlist/Wishes/Search Wikipedia with image or sketch search and maybe also comment on the talk page there. It didn't work so well with search terms but one can use WMC search for that anyway and it seems like the focus there is searching by image. I would suggest the asap it also shows the WMC categories by number of images in the results they contain, this way one can find relevant categories that contain more images. Also see my proposal about data dumps (and the link at the top there) which may make it possible to just pull new pictures which would also be great to improve WMC performance and reduce server load. I don't think it will be linked on the main page if it's not searching across all WMC images and is an external site but probably it could be linked at some other page not far from it – I don't know of use-cases where one would want to search by image and not via search terms or by browsing. Prototyperspective (talk) 22:21, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
They also have a tool that kind of sort of works with sketching (but used a different image collection for this one). It would be so important for the researchers in this area to speak with people at Wikimedia to sort out how to move forward on this. --WiseWoman (talk) 11:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Are court orders in scope for Commons?

Documents such as court orders like this are usually in PD (I hope everywhere). Are such docs in scope for us here in Commons? -- DaxServer (talk) 17:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

In the United States, all laws, proclamations, statutes, court decisions and opinions, etc. are all in the public domain. And in principle, any of them would be acceptable here at Commons. We need works to be appropriately licensed or in the public domain in both the United States and wherever it was originally created (if these are different). I assume that court decisions are in the public domain in India and our page on copyright rules states that the government can own a copyright (unlike in the United States, where all federal government publications are public domain), so it's not obvious to me that this is necessarily public domain in India. As a non-lawyer and non-India expert, I would guess that it's legit to uplaod here, but not for sure. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
That's actually not correct. Court orders and the like are matters of public record in the United States. That's different from them being in the public domain or not though. They are usually PD on the federal level, but every state has their own individual copyright terms for works created by the state government. So it really depends on if the court order was created by the federal government or which state it comes from. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
*emphasis added: "The Supreme Court held that the government edicts doctrine, which states that materials created by courts in the performance of their official duties belong to the public domain, also applies to “non-binding, explanatory legal material” that is created and published by a legislative body.". Cf. Edict_of_government and "Edicts of government, such as judicial opinions, administrative rulings, legislative enactments, public ordinances, and similar official legal documents are not copyrightable for reasons of public policy. This applies to such works whether they are Federal, State, or local as well as to those of foreign governments." —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:04, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
@Koavf: First comment https://answers.justia.com/question/2011/01/19/are-court-documents-considered-public-do-7048. I'd say that pretty much matches my understanding. "the courts have not allowed an enforceable copyright." Although that's different then if the document or parts of it can actually be copyrighted or not. Obviously if the document contains otherwise copyrighted material then it doesn't magically become PD simply for being part of the court record. --Adamant1 (talk) 22:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Actually, incorporation is not "obviously" not public domain and that's exactly what Carl Malamud has spent many years fighting in court, etc. The first comment there was about Harry Potter being used as evidence and thereby attached, which is different from (e.g.) incorporating ISO standards into a law. Either way, that's not germane in this case: court orders, laws, edicts, etc. cannot be copyrighted in the United States. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
This order is from an Indian court. US law isn't applicable. Omphalographer (talk) 22:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Please re-read what I wrote: in the United States, all laws, edicts, court orders, etc. are in the public domain, even ones from India and works that are hosted on Commons must be properly licensed or in the public domain in the United States, so the fact that it's public domain in the United States is 100% relevant. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Are such docs in scope for us here in Commons? That's really going to depend on the nature of the order. Some court orders will have historical significance, or may be useful as generic examples of court proceedings. However, most cases are not notable, and most court orders even within notable cases are routine procedural motions of no lasting significance.
As far as this particular order is concerned, this appears to be a notable case (cf. en:Asian News International#Lawsuit against Wikipedia), but this court order is entirely procedural in nature and is unlikely to be useful as a reference document, particularly given the substantial news coverage of the case. Omphalographer (talk) 20:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the input! -- DaxServer (talk) 07:23, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Is there a way to click things in my or someone elses contributions and undo them?

I have recently started using the visual file editor. A few times I found myself accidentally making erroneous edits. Is there a plugin that could allow me to just click from a list of my contributions and undoing them? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 12:06, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

To clarify, I manually undid the edits in question, but I would like to know how to do this in the future Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 12:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: I don't think anyone but admins can do a mass revert, and unlike Cat-a-Lot, VFC doesn't have a built-in reversion feature. Do preview at least one example before having VFC act on an enormous number of files! - Jmabel ! talk 14:21, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel that's unfortunate. Is there some kind of reason for a rule against it or just no tools available? I feel it would be helpful at lease for people reversing their own edits.
I'll try to be more careful. I am still new to using the tool but I think I figured out where I went wrong, and will try to use the preview more. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 14:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: It's built into Cat-a-Lot, so it's not a general principle. Yes, some sort of mass self-revert might be a good thing; I don't know the technical details. You wouldn't want people to be able to use it after more than an hour or so, though, because we occasionally get someone doing nasty stuff in a fit of pique, and imagine the chaos they could create with a year of self-reverts. - Jmabel ! talk 14:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Everyone makes mistakes and if you do so on a large scale and do your best to fix it and ask for help, that's not a problem. Rollback allows you to undo your or someone else's edits with a single click. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:34, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Use of NoFoP-category template on broad categories

I'm in a bit of a disagreement with someone on this issue, so I thought I'd ask for clarification here: should Template:NoFoP-category be applied to broad categories in a NoFoP country (e.g., "Statues in X city" or slightly more specific ones like "Statues of animals in Y city")? My understanding is that it should be reserved for categories dedicated to specific structures or monuments, as some in those cities may be old enough to no longer be under copyright protection. What are your thoughts? — Golden talk 21:31, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

The (English) text of the template suggests to me that it's meant for specific works, not classes. Not entirely sure if we should have such a template.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 21:47, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
I would never put it on that broad a category. - Jmabel ! talk 23:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
I agree with Enhancing999 and Jmabel. This belongs as a category header for specific works in NoFoP countries, for the reason you stated. ReneeWrites (talk) 10:23, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
Totally agree with everyone else. It doesn't make sense to use the template on a general topic because works in the category (or that will be uploaded to it) will inevitable be PD due to age or other factors. --Adamant1 (talk) 10:30, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
  • Disagree I now accept that the template should not be used in broad categories. All such templates that I erroneously added to categories have been helpfully deleted by the nominator and his friends. Thanks for that guys. Moving to non-broad category usage, the example cited - "Statues of animals in Y city" - does not fit the broad criterion in my view. As I mentioned to @Golden: on my talk page, "In the case of the "Statues_of_animals_in Qəbələ" category, I see two pics of wooden eagles and one pic of dinosaurs. I conclude that it is not general, it is not broad, the statues are new, it is quite specific (a triple intersection of art (statue), subject(animals) and location (Qəbələ)). So as far as I'm concerned, it meets all of the criteria". Certainly where all the pics in a category contain nothing but images which, of themselves, would all be legitimate candidates for marking with the template "NoFoP-Azerbaijan", then I think that a categorical marking is merited and a more efficient use of editors' time. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:23, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
    @Laurel Lodged or better, leave the generalized categories with no such templates? I was the one who proposed this template and its original purpose was for specific works. Leaving the generalized categories without such templates removes the unsightly clutter in the said categories. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 13:45, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
    TBH, I can see the merit of using this template in certain broad categories where virtually any photo will be a FoP violation. For instance, Qatar has strict FoP, and essentially no buildings or public artwork old enough to be in the public domain, so placing FoP warning templates on related categories might be warranted. Omphalographer (talk) 21:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
@Omphalographer: I'd be interested to know what exactly you think the merrits of doing it that way are. People are going to add images of copyrighted works to the categories regardless. The same could be said for the main categories for the subjects in the image, but at least users expect to see the template there. Plus at least in my experience broad categories tend to not be persistent anyway. So it's just encouraging people to add the template to the main subject level category instead of the one for the particular work and in an instance where the template will likely be removed or deleted at some point anyway. Categories for specific works at least have less chance of being deleted, and again, users expect the template to be there. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:12, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
The sort of situation I have in mind is where more specific subcategories might not exist on Commons because any image of the subjects would be non-free. It'd be analogous to {{NoUploads}}, which we use on categories for many well-known artists whose works are mostly non-free. Omphalographer (talk) 20:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
@Omphalographer: I just fixed Adamant1's ping above, so it may not have pinged you. - Jmabel ! talk 06:52, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Template:How to delete empty categories

When working on Commons:Report Special:UncategorizedCategories, I noticed that many categories are there, merely because users don't know how to have categories deleted with typos or other minor problems.

Template:How to delete empty categories (brought to my attention by @Jmabel) is meant to explain it to them.

I think it could be formulated better, though I'm not entirely sure how. Personally I prefer {{Badname}} or {{empty, parentless category}}. Also I noticed some users adding {{SD|C2}} including nowiki tags.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 12:50, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Someone is not doing it right if they include those nowiki tags.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 03:18, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, accordingly, I hope we can improve the template
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 09:07, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
I usually just use C2 unless it's clearly a bad name. I actually didn't know C1 was an option until just now. So things could clearly be explained better. Heck if I have any idea how though. --Adamant1 (talk) 03:31, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Whatever we do: keep the template short. If this is going to turn into a wall of text, it should be in a page linked from the template, not the template itself. - Jmabel ! talk 06:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
Yeah. It's an important template. Commons:Report Special:UncategorizedCategories is again full of categories that could have been tagged for speedy deletion.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 07:01, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Button for 3D models added on main page

A button that shows the 3D models was added on the main page, next to images and videos. It is a good point in time to highlight textured meshes that could be presented :) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 11:41, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Munich metro type

I would normaly put these metrotrains into the Category:MVG C (U-Bahn München), However the windows are different to the other images in that category. They ont have the pull open part. Is this an early C type, where later the windows where replaced or is it a totaly different type? Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:20, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Might be worth reaching out about on the German Wikipedia? Portal Diskussion:Bahn ReneeWrites (talk) 13:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
That's a Type C with the wooden seats near the door. The skylight windows are only on one side of the vehicle (most likely to avoid "Zugluft"). -- Herbert Ortner (talk) 20:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Footage from security cameras in the US

Someone remind me again what is the copyright status of this? Trade (talk) 11:34, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Selection of deprecated categories in category entry fields

Hi, when entering categories, category names that have been deprecated and redirected, such as, let's say, Category:SS Shieldhall, pop up in the list of suggestions in the same way as any other category, without any warning or labelling, so it is easy to choose them and never notice that you shouldn't have. I wonder whether this could be handled better somehow. ITookSomePhotos (talk) 20:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

@ITookSomePhotos: Can you say which category entry fields have this problem? Because when I enter that category in the one on Special:Upload, it gets automatically converted into the correct category when I click "OK". Similarly if I try to add it to a file using HotCat or enter it into Cat-a-lot. --bjh21 (talk) 21:22, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
I used the Upload Wizard. I uploaded some pictures of the ship "SS Shieldhall", typed "SS Shie..." in the category field, and then selected Category:SS Shieldhall from the list. Later, when for interest I went to look at what other images there were in that category, I found only mine, plus the redirection notice. The I manually changed my images to Category:Shieldhall (ship, 1955). This has happened to me before, with other categories too, though I can't remember specific examples now, but most probably these were also entered via the Upload Wizard. ITookSomePhotos (talk) 23:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
Things like that are exactly why I usually just nominate obsolete categories for deletion instead of redirecting them. 99% the redirect isn't useful anyway and it just cause more problems or work in the long run. There's absolutely no reason the few redirects that are worth having should show up in search results though. --Adamant1 (talk) 02:09, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
@Adamant1: I disagree. It's very helpful (to me at least) that Category:Herons, a redirect to Category:Ardeidae, turns up in search results, because it means that I type the word that I'm familiar with into HotCat and it will use the correct category. --bjh21 (talk) 12:06, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
I mean sure they are helpful in some cases. I didn't say they are absolutely worthless, but I've seen plenty of instances where the category should have just been deleted instead of redirected. The fact is that they are way over used. --Adamant1 (talk) 12:10, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
  • HotCat automatically converts the redirect cat and it's only a problem if the two category titles start of the same way because then one may wonder which of the two autocompletes are the one to pick.
  • For categories in the Upload Wizard, people already called for this in the Upload Wizard improvements talk page, e.g. here but maybe there should be a new thread about this since it probably should be fixed and HotCat already does this. I think files are automatically moved out of redirect categories and usually also out of disambiguation cats. If somebody knows whether this is done automatically please add info about this (like how long it takes).
Prototyperspective (talk) 11:35, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
As mentioned in that thread about Upload Wizard improvements, files are moved out of redirected categories by RussBot. Based on its recent contributions it runs daily, so you should allow at least a day for a new upload to be moved out of redirected categories. --bjh21 (talk) 12:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks, I didn't know that there was an automated process to do this. ITookSomePhotos (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Hopefully it's still dealt with eventually even if there's a bot to move the files. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Abusefilter to prevent uncategorised pages？

are all pages in main and category namespaces supposed to be categorised? if so then perhaps an abusefilter can be created to prevent creation of such pages without any "Category" or "{{" in source? (pages are categorised either directly or by transcluding a template.) RZuo (talk) 11:12, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

The ones on Commons:Report UncategorizedCategories with infobox all have "{{".
To update the list I have to purge recent creations to ensure those connected to Wikidata, but without edits since don't end up there.
For files, everything just ends up in Category:All_media_needing_categories_as_of_2024. Do users still get notified when they don't categorize?
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 11:38, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
My experience is that especially some bulk bot uploads from external sources (like flickr) are not properly categorized or not categorized at all. While inexperienced users fail to categorize quite often, they do not upload such huge numbers of media to commons. So coping with lacking categories by inexperienced users is manageable. But bulk uploaders can work around such an abusefilter by adding some not helpful category like Category:Files from xxxx stream on flickr needing categories and not taking care for proper categorization. Even if bulk uploaders do proper categorization, they will do this in a second step after uploading - an abusefilter will just disable their usual procedures.
for the cat mentioned above, https://wikimap.toolforge.org/?cat=All_media_needing_categories_as_of_2024 will show (after a while) images on the map and then it is easy to care for your area of interest. best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 21:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
"pages in main and category namespaces". not files. RZuo (talk) 09:29, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Yes, but the approach used for files could be applied to categories as well. There already is a (mostly empty) Category:Uncategorized categories.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 09:35, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Category:Uncategorized categories is "mostly empty" at the moment, but only because it was recently winnowed down from over 1500 categories. A year ago, it had ballooned to about 8000, and those past 5000 in alphabetical order couldn't even be seen in the list. - Jmabel ! talk 06:27, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
You mean Special:UncategorizedCategories, not Category:Uncategorized categories, isn't it?
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 06:42, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
@Enhancing999: Oops, you are correct, I should have clicked before assuming I knew what you meant. - Jmabel ! talk 21:30, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Feedback research

Mandatory settings must be made regarding image classification before uploading them. Otherwise, the site will be flooded with images and it will be difficult to find images when searching. Mohmad Abdul sahib 02:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

It's unclear what you're asking for. Files have filetitles and categories and both are used (alongside descriptions) to find and organize images. Prototyperspective (talk) 21:43, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Is there a categories need to be improved tag?

There is an uncategorized tag, but what about a categories need to be improved tag? Like something I would add in the event that I see a random photo on a farm somewhere in Japan but all it is categorized as is just "Japan" Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 04:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: yes, {{Check categories}} and the corresponding Category:Media needing category review. MKFI (talk) 06:28, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
You can dissiminate it it easily into:
It’s a start whence other people can pick from. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 18:28, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
There's also Category:Files needing categories‎ (see Category:Commons needing categorization). Tools to easily/quickly add the mentioned tag would be useful as well as scripts adding it to files. Many of un/badly categorized files are problematic or simply low-quality. Prototyperspective (talk) 21:47, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
I was going to mention Category:Unidentified locations in Japan. I'm not a super big fan of the whole "unidentified" category thing myself but there doesn't seem to be anything better at this point. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Crop Tool SNAFU

Crop tool is not working, again. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:24, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

What's SNAFU? --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 14:23, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Situation Normal: All Fucked Up. Means the Crop tool is broken but this is not unusual. ReneeWrites (talk) 14:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Ah thank you :) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 16:32, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
"! 502 The CropTool backend is currently having problems." is one message I have gotten all day. -- Ooligan (talk) 00:42, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
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